Why you should Focus on Listening to Korean
I firmly believe that there is no one task that is as important in becoming proficient in Korean as listening.
A lack of listening answers for 3 of the main reasons why foreigners are often unsuccessful in learning Korean.
These are:
1. Inability to speak in sentences
2. Bad pronunciation
3. Problems understanding the way people really speak due to not gaining a ‘feel’ for the language
First off, before I pick these apart one by one let’s realise one very basic fact about Korean. It is vastly vastly vastly different to English. I cannot explain quite how different it is in fact. If you’ve started learning then you’ll at least have noticed the way the grammar is totally backwards to English, the way these pesky things called ‘particles’ mark the grammar (you’ll come to realise that they’re really your friends) and you might have even noticed that there is no word for ‘you’ that doesn’t cause your Korean friend to burst into fits of laughter (there is actually but we’ll get to that another time).
These things are all true but are only the very tip of the iceberg young sailor~ It will do you a lot of good if you can realise quickly that the way so many things are expressed in Korean is completely different to how they are in English. Without knowing this you might overestimate the usefulness of English-Korean dictionaries. In reality these are usually archaic at best. Looking up the literal English to Korean translation for many things will yield unpredictable gains.
To illustrate this point, the verb ‘to clean’ in English can be used in a lot of contexts. Cleaning your teeth, the clothes, your house, your hair, your face, your car, the dishes.. Just for these 7 items there is a particular different ‘cleaning word’ you have to use in Korean (닦다, 세탁하다, 청소하다, 감다, 세수하다, 세차하다, 설거지하다) . If you look up the word clean in your English-Korean dictionary, unless it’s a very good one, you’ll not know which word is the right one to use, or at least it will be hard for you to be sure..
Also in terms of expressing things the action verb that is used in Korean is often different from that used in English. For example you ‘see’ the TV and examinations (보다) and you can ‘eat’ some drinks (e.g 술을 먹다).
Add onto this honorifics, hundreds of grammatical markers that convey different feelings that we more commonly rely on tone of voice alone to accomplish in English, polite and casual speech styles and you’ve got a language that cannot be learned well through memorisation of rules. Only experience of seeing this theatre in action will really constitute learning of it in any true sense.
OK, now back to the 3 problems foreigners often have with Korean.
Problem 1 – Speaking grammatically, in sentences, the way Koreans do – i.e not regurgitating words and their particles added on like you’ve just realiased they should be added at the last second, because you learned a grammar rule that told you so. A sure fire sign of an incompetent speaker is one who is trying to apply grammar rules through a scientific, bottom-up process (kimchi—rul joa-hae-yo!). If you have listened to Korean enough then these rules will be learned automatically by the awesome power of your brain, which is awesome at learning languages, by the way. Do you remember learning grammar rules in order to learn to speak your first language? I didn’t think so..
The problem with this one seems to come as much from Korean languages teachers and textbooks as it does from the fault of learners themselves. The former of these focus way too much on the ‘grammar’ and using the right English grammatical terms to describe the Korean grammar as though this will actually be of any help. I can understand this a little when basic beginner books do this, perhaps to ease the learner in through the use of English here, but when these tables and grids of archaic explanations continue in intermediate books and above – one wonders what the point of needlessly confusing the learner in this way is. All you really need once you have learned the basic grammar is a grammar reference book, and the best one available is one written by a Korean living abroad. Using Korean is all you need for this.
Problem 2 - Bad pronunciation. Again when I hear foreigners with really bad pronunciation, pronouncing every consonant as the CD that came with their first textbook told them to, then I know they haven’t done enough listening.
For some reason, again, Korean textboooks typically start with very over-the-top slowed down speaking, as though one was talking to a baby, and keep going like this for the intermediate textbooks and beyond! I’m convinced that it is part of a conspiracy to stop non-natives speaking Korean while sounding like intelligent human beings. This is the reason I do not use Korean textbooks and their recordings to learn Korean, as listening to these either sends me into fits of hysterics at it’s absurdity or anger and regret at having paid for the book.
Problem 3 – Understanding Korean as it’s really spoken. This ties in with the last one, as it is partly a result of only having listened to moronic audio recordings that come with textbooks that many Korean learners are unable to understand Korean they hear around them. It is also however, a lack of a ‘feel’ for the language that only comes with so many hours of repeated listening.
When you starting out learning Korean, one of your first goals should be just to know and understand how people express the basics in this language. Like I said earlier, Korean is so different from English that just learning the new ways that everything is said is a job in itself. Listening to this rather than reading explanations is a far more efficient way of doing things.
So with these three problems explained and having made the case for why you should focus on listening to Korean.. What is the solution?
Well, duhh.. ‘Listening’ is the solution of course! But what kind of listening exactly, and where can I get the right audio content for a fair price through someone I can trust? 
KOREAN CLASS 101 of course!
I only keep mentioning this site because it is the best. I wouldn’t be tricking you into this as it’s not my style, or game quite frankly.
This said, Korean Class 101 is not perfect and certain things about it bug me (namely the adverts and intros at the start of every lesson) but it has something that is not offered in the same way anywhere else and that is…
Audio blogs, in 100% Korean, not read too slowly or in a stupid voice, many many many audio blogs on all the basic topics you need to learn about. The best bit is that these all follow a similar format, and include light chit-chat and banter between the two hosts where you will be exposed to the same structures of grammar and vocabulary again and again and again until you know it all very naturally.
Once you have listened to these enough I guarantee that you will suddenly start ‘thinking’ in Korean, and grammatical sentences will come to you rather than you trying to find them. It is quite an amazing feeling at first when you notice these sentences coming out of your mouth, and it is one that is within anyone’s reach.
If you are learning Korean you should aim to be up to these audio blogs after 6 months to a year of studying. I would recommend that you learn 2000 of the most basic Korean words before you move up to these to make it comfortable for you. And to get their you can also use Korean Class 101′s beginner and intermediate lessons (the later using a mix of half Korean, half English to aid comprehension).
At first these audio blogs will be difficult to understand. Things will kind of make sense sometimes and kind of not at other times. Very soon however, if you read through the transcripts and listen again and again to the audio blogs (I did about 20 minutes a day for 6 months) you will notice rapid improvements in your comprehension, command and ‘feel’ of Korean. You will ultimately reach a degree of fluency through these, similar to where I am now, where Koreans will give you genuine compliments and be surprised at your Korean because you don’t sound like a foreigner.
I recommend you sign up for at least a basic account so that you get access to all the transcripts which come with vocabulary and example sentences. A premium account will give you access to all kinds of extra resources like a grammar bank too. I recommend you sign up for a 6 months to a year at least as otherwise you will stop getting access to new lessons.
Although Korean Class 101 calls these audio blogs ‘advanced’, they are really basic in terms of how deep Korean goes. As far as the road to fluency goes though, being able to understand 90-95% of these audio blogs should be your first major goal in learning Korean. It can be accomplished in as little as a year without attending any classroom-based Korean class.
For further more advanced listening resources, look under the resources category on the main page.
And to round off the message of this post.. Take it away Beyonce!
James,
I agree with you about immersing yourself in native media, and have also read about AJATT before. My only question is about how I get to the level where native media is input+1, instead of a stream of incomprehensible sounds? Since I’m a relative beginner, or high-beginner, should I spend a lot of time just cramming in as much vocabulary as I can, so that I can overcome the hurdle and be able to use native media?
I know it’s not a race, but I wanna get to the level where I study by using something that’s completely in Korean, as quickly as possible, so I can banish English from my life. I like native media because it’s natural instead of contrived grammar, which I am afraid I’ll develop by not using those sources. When I compare what is taught in a lesson or textbook to how people actually speak or how it appears in native media, the grammar used is very different.
So what’s the quickest way to get to listening and reading native media?
Bryan
November 17, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Hi Bryan,
I think the best way to get to comprehending native media is to break it into categories and focus on reading and listening to lots of similar articles and news reports within those categories, one at a time. Those categories being the types of news reports for example, geography, culture, economy, security etc..
You are in luck as there is one amazingly good web site for achieving this end which I have been planning to post on for a long time. The site in question is called lingnet which is a site containing hundreds of archived news reports that come with streaming audio and best of all interactive lessons (which the instructions are all in Korean if you want so you don’t have to be reading anything in English
). I would recommend you go for the lowest level on there or up to level 2.
A good thing to do with this site, and one thing I have done, is to import this native media content (transcripts) into LingQ (check the link on the side bar for how to do this).
The only problem with this site is that you can’t download MP3′s of the audio. This is where you will need to get an application to rip the audio if you want to be able to listen to it when you like on your mp3 player.
I also would look at Korea Beat for translations of interesting media stories and then practice reading the Korean in lingQ.
Hope this helps and thanks for the comment on my blog
James Devereux
November 20, 2009 at 11:29 am
Your thought about how different Korean is reminds me of the time I felt how different English was. I have been studying English since I was a middle school student just like other ordinary Koreans in my age, but I didn’t really notice such a difference. It was just one of boring subjects I had to study for exams. Fortunately, I found it, studying foreign languages including English, interesting at last, I began to realize that English and Korean are fundamentally different in many ways after I got out of school.
My second foreign language I’m studying right now is Japanese, and I would say this one is fairly easy compared to English. Because there is no big difference between these two languages in neighbor, unlike English. Most of times, all I need to know is vocabulary. The flow of thinking is heading the same direction in Japanese. English? Totally different. Backward sometimes. Absolutely new sometimes.
Bryan / I think, at beginner level, you might need some works on boring textbooks a little bit to get to a certain level to comprehend native stuffs. However, you also can enjoy native media made for childrens. One of podcasts I used to subscribe was Sesame Street Video, and I really loved it. I don’t think it would be easy to find such resources in Korean, though. …..Good luck! ^^;
Youngbin
November 18, 2009 at 6:10 am
영빈씨~ 고멘트를 남겨주셔서 고마워요 ^^
I think it’s great when people discover that there is more to learning languages than feeling bored, sitting in a classroom and having to memorise lots of meaningless words. Your level of English certainly proves that you have accomplished a lot and I can see that you enjoy communicating in English.
A lot of the challenge is learning to think in a new way, as you say. It seems that there is not enough focus on teaching the differences between English and Korean in most English classes in Korea. Even if you can write grammatical English sentences, you can still not be ‘thinking in English’ and using it like a native speaker would.
The other day I was on a website teaching Korean and I noticed that the translation of ‘I’m angry’ was ‘화가 나요’. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Korean person say it like that but for some reason they were teaching this instead of ‘화가 났어요’ as it would naturally be said. It seemed like the people had changed it for English speakers to fit the English speaker’s way of thinking! I often think that resisting the English way of thinking is to do with fear and not wanting to embrace Western culture. To me, and perhaps to you too, I find that not embracing the culture that comes with the English language is one of the biggest reasons why many Korean learners can’t learn it well.
Thanks for you comment and I had a look at your blog and was trying to read some of your posts. It looked really good. I will try and leave a comment on one in future as you have done here
James Devereux
November 20, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Wow, I think I know where I’ve “gone wrong” in studying Korean. Too much reading and writing and not NEARLY enough listening. Which is why, after over a year of study, my listening and speaking abilities are really horrible. I am definitely going to take your advice and find more time for listening.
Thank you for helping other Korean learners based on your experiences. Much appreciated.
Courtney
November 18, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Hi Courtney,
Happy to help
It’s seems like a funny thing but most foreigner’s Korean lacks so much because they are not used to what Korean sounds like. Korean textbooks and Korean classes alone do not cater to this glaring need very well. More listening is needed. The other thing is that listening actually requires a lot less effort than reading and other language learning activities. If you have an mp3 player, you can listen while doing almost anything. Even if it is in the background it can still be beneficial. I used to listen for at least 20 minutes a day, while I was cleaning my house, walking to work or exercising and in a few weeks I saw huge jumps in my abilities.
If you live in Korea I also recommend ’2000 Essential Korean Words for Beginners’. This has clearly recorded sentences that correspond to the 2000 most common words in Korean. You can pick it up from most book stores here.
Hope to see you around here again
James Devereux
November 20, 2009 at 11:44 am
Hi James,
I did pick up the vocab. book you recommended. How do you recommend approaching it? Start at the beginning or start at what one considers the most interesting topics?
I guess this is way off-topic, but do you (or any of your readers) have recommendations for teaching young English-speaking children (6-7 year olds) Korean? I’m looking for something that will emphasize conversation instead of writing the alphabet. (Hangeul is of course important, but I already have several children’s books that teach Hangeul.) Almost all the resources I have been able to find assume that the kids are speaking Korean at home and just need to learn to read and write. My local heritage language school operates the same way so no luck there either.
Thanks for any advice about either question.
Courtney
December 10, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Hi Courtney
With the vocabulary book I recommend working through the chapters in whichever order you want to, doing the chapters of most interest or use to you first. The appendix is also very useful as it provides a lot of antonyms of useful verbs, verb conjugation charts and such. It may seem daunting at first to take on 2000 Korean words but look at tackling it over a long period of time and it won’t seem so daunting.
As for your second question.. Wow that’s a tough one. If they are getting exposed to Korean only when you are teaching them then it’s going to be especially difficult. I would focus on doing really basic things again and again and again. Korean bookstores/서점 like those in the big department stores have lots of materials for Kindergarten students, but I’d guess they’re probably too difficult. I think you need to be realistic and see that you can’t teach them much Korean in the time you are going to spend with them. Commands can be very good with children. You can teach them all the basic commands such as 앉으세요!(sit down) by getting them to copy the behavior of what you say. You could even make a game of it where they have to do the right one or they are out. There are great English songs for teaching these kind of things in English on a site called Dream English that I used to use when I taught kindergarten. If you could make songs like these in Korean then that would be ideal, though that may require substantial musical know-how. Good Luck ^^
Thanks for stopping by.
James Devereux
December 13, 2009 at 7:35 am
James,
You make some good points, but there’s nothing here that can’t be attributed to learning any other language. I took Spanish for as long as I can remember in school, and I can barely speak a full sentence. Abilities only go as far as the study that accompanies them.
Taking it to a more broad level, your points can be attributed to learning any skill whatsoever. I have to take a Chemistry class even though it’s not even closely related to what I’m studying or my interests. Can I be good at Chemistry in terms of taking the test? Sure. Can I apply it in any real world situations faced with the challenge? Not likely. Studying Korean, a language, or any other skill from books (or a similar concept) is the same thing. All you’re saying here is “immerse yourself”.
You probably possess some skills that many other people do not have: maybe you can draw dragons well or make yo-yo’s. To pull this into perspective, consider the fact that I have to study about the exciting subject of electron affinity. I can read everything there is to know about it and perhaps just become as knowledgeable on the subject as my professor. What separates me from him is that he actually knows what electron affinity means; he can pull the concept into an entirely different web of connections and come to conclusions that blow me away.
Why can he do this? He has a passion for Chemistry and has overcome “inability to make sentences”, “bad pronunciation”, and “getting the feel of the language” in relative terms with Chemistry. All three of these points come more of less naturally as you actually study the skill with actual goals in mind.
The foreigners you’re referring to simply are not studying Korean with any goal in mind or passion. Or, perhaps they are and simply haven’t gotten to this point yet.
Your points are completely correct: your real Korean knowledge is going to come through experience. Your real Chemistry knowledge is going to materialize through experimentation.
My overall assertion is that your points are not nearly as profound as you make them out to be. Anybody that is really good at anything has gone through these steps _naturally_. I stand by my claim that, save for mental defect, anybody can be good at anything that they want to be.
The non-Koreans that I know who have been studying Korean for years and still cannot make a full sentence do not have a self-driving passion for it. They may say they do, but deep down, it’s low on their priority list. As a result, telling the readers of your blog these points has no real effect on their studies. It’s ultimately them that has to discover these points naturally.
Saying over and over again that Korean is so different from English will not make anyone realize it any faster. Your example about cleaning, directly from “Using Korean”, does not really illustrate any point. Many of those words, like 세차하다 do not have direct translations that mean “clean” — as this one is “carwash”. Cleaning your car and going to a carwash are two different things.
Even from English to Spanish, there are so many different words and phrases that do not directly translate to the feeling of English. Your points about Korean being different (although it is much more different than Spanish) can be attributed to any other language.
“…you’ve got a language that cannot be learned with memorisation of rules” — What language can?
Chris
November 19, 2009 at 4:02 am
Chris,
That’s quite an effort you’ve made at a critique of my post there. The problem with it is that it doesn’t make a lot of sense in terms of what I actually wrote, so much to the point that I’m wondering if you actually took the time to read the post or whether you just skimmed it and filled in the gaps with your own assumptions. Either way, your response doesn’t come across as very considered..
Let’s go through it shall we.. Factually you have gotten a lot wrong.
—-
First off, this post was specifically about one kind of learning – through listening – hence the title ‘why you should focus on listening to Korean’. It is therefore unnecessary for you to point out that:
Eh? Listening to make patterns and sounds of language stick in your brain can help you learn any skill whatsoever? How about carpentry then?
Next you write:
When did I say ‘immerse yourself?’ Please show me the sentence! Listening to a podcast 20 minutes or however long a day and immersion are very different things. I did not prescribe the latter in this post.
Then:
I disagree 100%. I know foreigners who are very passionate about learning Korean but have bad pronunciation and/or can’t form sentences well. They have not been learning from the right content sources. This post was about why ‘audio content’ is such an important resource.
You said:
If you were unmoved by my post that is okay. For many though, becoming aware of the extent of the benefits of listening can be quite a profound discovery.
You said:
This is a very sweeping generalisation. How can you be so sure of this? Without information people are in the dark. Did you ever hear about Plato’s Cave? How can someone do something ‘naturally’ as you say, if the information is not there in the first place?
You said:
Passion and self-discovery are the best drivers of successful learning, granted. It can have a big effect on a learner’s studies to recommend them to an appropriate resource though that will help them learn more efficiently. This plus that I have been successful learning this way could be a big motivator for some to enjoy similar success.
Why don’t you think that telling people of the differences between Korean and English will make them aware of these? I agree that experience is the best way to know these but as far as I can see, to those who don’t know it still helps.
You said:
You are confusing things. Firstly the meaning of 세차하다 is to wash a car, which we may express in English as to ‘clean a car’. What do you mean that it means ‘carwash’? If you thought it meant ‘going to a car wash machine’ then you were wrong. The functional meaning is the same as in ‘clean’ when we say in English ‘to clean the car’.
You finished with..
“…you’ve got a language that cannot be learned with memorisation of rules” — What language can?
To take what you quoted me on, I suppose what I meant to say was that Korean would be that much harder to learn by this inefficient way of learning a language. It is within the realm of possibility that a much more grammatically simple language like Italian could be learned by always trying to remember rules, though it would still not be learned at all well.
As far as differences go, I was just making the point that the differences between Korean and English are great than other language pairs like Spanish and English.
—
All in all I agree of course that what applies with Korean of course applies to other languages. I emphasised the special importance of listening with Korean – just to get a basic command of it – as this is required a lot to even reach such a basic level, where as other languages may not require as much so early on.
I recommend you aim for greater clarity in your writing. Try to stay on topic and go less into a rant, it’s better for you to start your own blog if that’s what you want to write. It’s not productive for me or anyone else who reads this if you do this here. If you do have criticism on certain points then keep them sharp and precise
I thank you for taking the time to read my blog and to comment all the same.
James Devereux
November 19, 2009 at 2:44 pm
@Chris, plus read Courtney’s comment before yours and you’ll find someone who has benefited from what I’ve written about.
James Devereux
November 19, 2009 at 3:03 pm
You’re right. Let’s make this a little more “sharp and concise”:
“I firmly believe that there is no one task that is as important in becoming proficient in Korean as listening.”
Oh, you mean to become good at a language I have to be really good at listening, too? Oh, okay, got it! It all makes sense now.
“It will do you a lot of good if you can realise quickly that the way so many things are expressed in Korean is completely different to how they are in English.”
Oh, you mean it’s actually a different language? I have to learn a different way to express feelings? Thanks — I’m sure everyone can now jointly benefit from your knowledge.
“A lack of listening answers for 3 of the main reasons why foreigners are often unsuccessful in learning Korean.
These are:
1. Inability to speak in sentences
2. Bad pronunciation
3. Problems understanding the way people really speak due to not gaining a ‘feel’ for the language”
Once again, I have to become good at listening in order to get a better feel for the language? No way!
“If you want to keep living, you should breathe.”
(DISCLAIMER: You did not actually say this.)
Oh, thanks! I know what I need to do now.
— (<– I like your use of this, so I'm going to do it, too. It really makes my writing more concise.)
All in all, my point, as stated before, is that you're not coming to any conclusions here. Having a strong command of any actual language inherantly involves listening. As such, there isn't any real point to be made here.
As for 세차하다, please look it up in the dictionary. I did not say "carwash machine". ("Please show me the sentence where I said this.")
Cleaning a car more closely means 차 안을 청소하다 as actually washing a car is 세차하다 (see definition below) which is typically done in a carwash type of environment (machine or manual).
세차: [명사]차체, 바퀴, 기관 따위에 묻은 먼지나 흙 따위를 씻음.
This is your personal space, and I'm obviously not here to tell you how to run it. However, perhaps I thought you were smart enough to actually appreciate discussing your content without your ego getting involved (stupid me!).
Sorry, I won't do it again. Carry on.
Chris
November 20, 2009 at 1:57 am
““I firmly believe that there is no one task that is as important in becoming proficient in Korean as listening.””
“Oh, you mean to become good at a language I have to be really good at listening, too? Oh, okay, got it! It all makes sense now.”
You have misinterpreted this sentence. What I mean is that you have to devote more time to listening than to anything else. Therefore the amount of time you spend listening should be more at first than the amount of time you spend speaking, reading and writing. I didn’t mean ‘good at listening’ though that obviously helps.
““It will do you a lot of good if you can realise quickly that the way so many things are expressed in Korean is completely different to how they are in English.””
“Oh, you mean it’s actually a different language? I have to learn a different way to express feelings? Thanks — I’m sure everyone can now jointly benefit from your knowledge.”
Ouch, more scathing sarcasm from you here! The funny thing is that the posters before you had something intelligent to say about what I wrote. Look at what ‘Youngbin’ wrote about being surprised about the extent of the differences between Korean and English. And for your information not every language does have very different ways to express emotions, especially those which are closely related to each other in terms of language family like Spanish and Italian.
“Once again, I have to become good at listening in order to get a better feel for the language? No way!
“If you want to keep living, you should breathe.”
(DISCLAIMER: You did not actually say this.)”
Do you troll the forums of Dave’s ESL cafe by any chance? Sounds like you would fit in well there. Ever heard that sarcasm is the lowest form of humour?
“Cleaning a car more closely means 차 안을 청소하다 as actually washing a car is 세차하다 (see definition below) which is typically done in a carwash type of environment (machine or manual).”
What if I use the word ‘clean a car’ to mean cleaning the inside? That is one way of using the word clean in English which would mean the same as 세차하다.
“This is your personal space, and I’m obviously not here to tell you how to run it. However, perhaps I thought you were smart enough to actually appreciate discussing your content without your ego getting involved (stupid me!).”
Your comment just struck me as being badly thought out and a poor attack on my post. It seemed like it was your ego and your ideas that were more offended by my advice than anything I have said. If it was a smart comment I would have treated it as so, but as it was and as you have confirmed with your 2nd comment it was just going down the road of nit-picking at insignificant things and selective interpretation based on your own assumptions. It looked like the post of someone who was looking to discredit the author for other motives.
I wonder, do you write a blog? Can you provide some examples of what you have written to back up what you have professed to know about language learning in these posts?
And lastly, the take-home message of my post was ‘you may not realise how much time you should devote to listening to Korean [assuming that is the language people are studying as they are on a 'Korean blog'] and the benefits it can provide you in three key areas’. I neglected listening before I found good listening content which is hard to come by with Korean, therefore I would have benefited from realising and knowing of a good source of content while I was a beginner learner, as my post is advising.
Just because the post wasn’t necessarily useful to ‘you’ doesn’t make it less valuable to many others. It was intended for beginners of Korean who may not know much about the best way to learn a language.
That’s it, I hope you can restrain your sarcastic tendencies if you do choose to respond.
James Devereux
November 20, 2009 at 6:35 am
The sarcasm and use of the categorical imparative used was not meant to be “biting” or cynical in any way, but it was used as a tool to make a point (a literary device). I’m not trying to “attack” you; it’s a shame that it was misinterpreted. I respect your efforts and the resources you post, but this post certainly could have been better thought out. As such, I was trying to explain why without launching into a huge discussion (as this would not be a “comment” and then be inappropriate for this section as you state). The comment section should make the blogs better–not just glorify the author.
“What if I use the word ‘clean a car’ to mean cleaning the inside? That is one way of using the word clean in English which would mean the same as 세차하다.”
I really must disagree as this is not true. Please read the definition (posted below). Ask someone if it still doesn’t quite make sense. We’re all here to learn–this point was not meant to be an attack.
세차: [명사]차체, 바퀴, 기관 따위에 묻은 먼지나 흙 따위를 씻음.
Everyone that reads this blog has a common goal; I’m not an enemy.
Chris
November 20, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Very good points in your post, James! One thing I would add is that as well as listening to recordings, it is important to listen to lots and lots of actual conversations in a variety of situations. This can only happen as we hang around Koreans talking to other Koreans in real live situations and have to process the language as its happening.
Anno
November 20, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Thanks for the tips, James. I started with Hyunwoo’s blog when I read this post earlier, and have just been studying the first one intensively.
To the person critiquing the post because “it is not profound”–I would have to say that very little that is found within blogs, or even published books, is extremely profound, although it can often be very useful. What James has said is simple and apparent, yet many (if not most) learners miss these simple things. In fact, many people in Korea studying to learn Korean are English teachers, whose careers rely on a method of study which greatly diverges from the techniques that James (among others) have recommended.
I’ve always agreed with the linguist Stephen Krashen, yet many people don’t, and the curriculum of every language school in Korea is not based on those theories. Most people know (on a practical level) that immersion in target language input is the best way to learn–as evidenced by everyone saying “you’ll only become fluent when you move to that country and speak every day.” But rarely, if ever do they study in such a way. If you look at how Koreans learn English, they are barely exposed to native media during their classes. They learn vocabulary lists, grammar rules, and contrived English most of the time. So, even though you may find what James has written as obvious, I think it deserves more mention.
Bryan
November 21, 2009 at 10:07 pm
I agree with most of the things you’ve said. Honestly, I never really put much thought into the importance of listening before because it just seems natural. I incessantly tell my friends that their Korean is so very weird and awkward because they don’t listen enough, because they don’t watch enough TV. It’s nice to know that someone feels the same way.
Nonetheless, in the grand scheme of things, I feel that listening is not that important. Of course, if people just want basic proficiency in Korean, listening is paramount. For those of us who are more-or-less proficient and who crave more, though, things are quite different. As far as I can tell, we need to read, write, and even study grammar through textbooks. At this stage, reading becomes far more important than listening.
Learning things naturally by just listening and reading is wonderful, but I honestly lack the time and patience for that. I listen and I read, but I also memorize words/grammar patterns. For me, personally, a combined approach works well and helps me see results quickly.
Chantelle
November 23, 2009 at 2:36 am
All I can say is, you’d better be right. I’ve been digesting the beginner and intermediate podcasts for several months now, and so far, it has barely made a dent in my listening ability with real-life Korean, let alone my conversation ability. I think the drawback of repeated listening is that eventually I simply memorize what I’m listening to, and even though I understand it, it doesn’t seem to train me to hear or speak Korean in real time. I imagine the best way to do this is to find a Korean person who is patient enough to practice with me without falling back on English, and finding someone like that is not easy. But having said that, I’ll keep going through the podcasts and hope it pays off eventually.
Michael
November 23, 2009 at 2:56 am
Michael,
I am not theorising about the benefits of listening for developing an ear for a language, I am simply emphasising an already-known fact. In this respect my post is not ground-breaking in any way, or profound, but is very useful to lots of learners who haven’t realised the reason why their language skills lack in certain areas.
If you are at the stage of only listening to beginner and intermediate podcasts, then I wouldn’t expect you to have developed an ear for real-life Korean yet. You simply will not have been exposed to enough life-like conversations which are those contained within the audio blog and advanced series. You should keep working on your expanding your vocabulary, reading and grammar and getting yourself up to the level where you can attempt understanding one of the higher level lessons that are all in Korean. At first I would recommend listening to the same episodes of the audio blog series as many times as you can possibly stand. When I started with them I would listen to some 10 or more times.
Bottom line. Get up to the audio blog podcasts, get the listening time in and it will pay off.
Also, Check the update to this post and watch the video I’ve posted on there.
Best of luck
James Devereux
November 23, 2009 at 7:12 am
O.O
Umm…
I just happened to take another look at this post, and I’m a little bewildered by your second reply to me. When I said “you’d better be right” I meant I sincerely hope you’re right because I have been putting an awful lot of time into listening to those podcasts, which is to say I’ve been putting a lot of faith in what you and others say about listening. I did not mean to sound demeaning or threatening in any way and I sincerely apologize for that. I have been listening to the KC101 audio blogs steadily for almost three months now, and I although I still can’t understand much in real-life Korean, I can understand most of the audio blogs after a few listens and readings, so that is progress. I agree that speaking as well as listening is necessary to develop conversation ability. From this blog entry, it almost sounded like you were saying that listening alone would eventually enable you to speak automatically. Anyhow, it might be good to clarify that in your e-book. I should mention that I’ve found the things on your blog very helpful, and I’ll continue to visit, although it’s probably best if I don’t comment anymore.
Michael
February 21, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Thanks for your comment Michael. I think you raise a good point that speaking is very important for developing fluency and it is one that I neglected to make a point of in my post – you are right. I suppose I was writing about what it is important to do at first – and I believe that to be lots of listening before trying to speak. It is a point I will certainly be developing a lot in my e-book.
I think I was in a bad mood when I wrote my second reply to you. I’ve deleted it because I think I said all I needed to in my first comment. Apologies if it came over as at all menacing.
I’m glad you have found my blog helpful and I hope you will return to comment in the future.
James Devereux
March 9, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Unadulterated words, some truthful words man. Thanks for making my day.
teerasady
November 27, 2009 at 8:21 am
인터넷 서핑을 하다가 재미있는 사이트를 발견했군요.
영어공부 하는 한국인은 많은데 이렇게 한글을 열심히 공부하는 외국인을 보니 낯설기도 하면서 대단하기도 하네요!
찬찬히 시간 날때 글 읽어보겠습니다.
흥미로워 보이는데요!
한국어 공부 화이팅! (문법도 와우, 한국인보다 더 잘 아실듯)
Park Soyoung
November 30, 2009 at 10:26 pm
when searching for korean language resources i constantly run into broken links and abandoned blogs. i dont think tearing into peoples writing or nitpicking minor details (i.e. classification http://parksguide.blogspot.com/2008/09/lets-do-it.html
(same chris in comments?)) is an effective tool tward our “common goal”. i think encouragement would be more helpful, to let these authors know that their work is appreciated and if you have such strong opinions you should share your writing with us on your own blog.
tom
December 5, 2009 at 2:42 am
Hi Tom,
I couldn’t agree with you more. There is little value in nitpicking. I sometimes wonder why people who do so don’t seem to have anything better to do with their time. If that is what they want to do then it’s better to have their own blogs about it like you say.
I have a post lined up about Park’s Guide to Korean, which has a lot of good resources on it, but unfortunately as you point out there are a lot of dead links on there.
I’m looking at doing a re-haul of this site and also have a new project lined up that I’ll be introducing soon.
Finally, Thanks for your encouragement!
James Devereux
December 13, 2009 at 7:41 am
Hello James,
I´ve been learning korean outside (I don´t live in Korea though I have been there twice) for almost 2 years, and my level highed up dramatically when I mandatory had to listen to korean people who was unable to speak English or Spanish (my native lenguage). I can´t agree more on your opinion about the importance of listening.
Thanks for your blog. It´s full of valuable information. I wish everybody here (including myself) could have the passion and patience to share experiences with everyone else once the point of “advanced-student” has been reached. Superb!
Javier
December 29, 2009 at 12:31 pm
I am currently using Korean Class 101 podcast lessons to study. I like the podcasts a lot, but yes I agree with you James, the ads and intros are really annoying (like fingernails on a chalkboard kind of annoying). There’s got to be a more effective way for them to bring in more dough.
To anybody interested- Work around the intros by using the start time settings in iTunes. Right click the podcast(s), select getinfo, click the options tab and enter a good start time. -48 seconds is about right for the Season 3 Adv. Audio Blogs. Then, you’re right into the Korean.
mattgirod
December 29, 2009 at 6:02 pm
When I first started, I purchased a book and two dictionaries. But nowadays, I mostly listen in on Korean conversations when I’m enjoying a Korean meal at the small restaurant. I also watch alot of Korean dramas, though I’ve drifted from that in the last month. My next interest is follow along at http://talktomeinkorean.com
Daniel
February 12, 2010 at 8:50 pm
I have ran into an interesting dilemma. I have also bought the 2,000 essential Korean words which is useful for a reference material but I really do not like rote memorization.
I have been listening to Korean for about nine months now almost every single day. Though I have not been as dedicated keeping up with what I am listening to and most of it was usually background noise. I have found that Korean no longer sounds like noise and even when listening to blogs I can distinctly separate the sound of words with relative ease. The issue is the words themselves, a lot of the words I do not know the meaning for probably about 70% of them. This leads me to my question. . .
Would you recommend jumping into the Audio blogs and take a more active or passive approach to listening to them? Also, what would be a prime way to learn the vocab? I have been using an SRS but I have fallen in love with LingQ recently so I have been using that a lot more religiously. I learned mostly grammar patterns first with a little vocab thrown in. . and now I’m running into issues of not knowing enough vocab.
I was thinking of maybe going through all the audio blogs and LingQing them while somewhat actively listening to them while doing about fifty flash card reps a day. . . but I’m at a slight loss. Any input would be appreciated.
Josh
April 12, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Josh,
I think the method you suggest at the end of your message would be an excellent approach
I would advise taking both an active and passive approach to listening to the audio blogs. Great to stick on even if you are only 50% focusing on them, as long as you read over the text afterwards and some point and start to get better acquainted with it. Then you should listen to the audio again, and it will gradually fall into place. Active listening is of course great too but I wouldn’t worry about stressing too much about always paying close attention to everything. As long as you can get everything when you read it after wards. Later you will start to find that you do get everything in the blogs anyway, without the reading.
James Devereux
April 21, 2010 at 1:54 pm
[...] when I was disappointed to listen to the series 4 of the Korean Class 101 audio blogs (which I often praise on this site) and discover the narrator putting on a horrendous K-Textbook voice that sounded [...]
Finding Interesting Content – 토크온섹스(Talk on Sex) « Korean {as it is}
May 6, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Question
Hi James,
Great to see you suggesting practical, pragmatic, real life and fun ways to learn Korean. I am currently enrolled at Sogang – the best uni in the country for learning Korean but it sill definitely has its negatives. I have a question – I have been in Korea for bloody ages, 8 years now, but because of my age and my style of learning (I find it hard to even listen and read academic English, especially long sentences) by listening is terrible. I am repeating level 3 at Sogang again because they do everything so quickly.
My question is this – I have a good handle on the grammar I have been taught so far so, does the ‘Korean Class 101′ have classes for my level? I don’t want to sign up, pay money and find its all to easy.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
David Oxenbridge
jecheon
September 28, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Hi David,
I’m sure that Korean class 101 will have something at your level. I recommend you download and listen to some of the audio blogs and advanced lessons to see what they’re like then if you think they would help then you should sign up for a premium account. It’s much cheaper than doing a university program and much more productive in how you spend your time learning. I recommend making a conversation partner who you can meet to go over the dialogues with you.
If you sign up then please use the link through my site so I get the commission for referring you. Thanks
James Devereux
September 29, 2010 at 2:24 am
If I can jump in here David, I bought a subscription to KoreanClass101.com a few months ago (on James’ recommendation) and it has been very helpful to me…lots of dialogues and explanations from beginner to advanced. I’ve been studying Korean mostly on my own for about four years now and I can say that KoreanClass101.com is very well designed…don’t be put off by the advertisements which unfortunately are a little cheesy. My current level is intermediate but if I had something like this, say, a couple of years ago my Korean might be further along by now.
It is pricey (I think I paid about $100 or $150) but you get what you pay for, especially if you use it regularly. You can think of it like $2-3 a week.
Marc H.
October 23, 2010 at 7:55 am
i would like to learn more about the english language specially the english grammar .
Body Cleanser :
October 29, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Okay. Okay. Okay. I don’t need a long article and an argument about it to teach me anything.
Listening is ONE of the most important things a learner can do. < fact
Listening is THE most important thing a person can do < opinion.
However I do agree. Skip the debate on this please. Life is short.
I'm a beginner – intermediate Korean learner and there are NO resources for
learning to listen to THIS LEVEL of learning – that is not too slow
or mechanical or "mini-mouse" Korean woman-voice sounding.
I'll try a few links above. Simple words and grammar must be used. Korean dramas
have too much street lingo – Korean internet is way too fast an unfamiliar.
Korean 101.com < so sick of that annoying intro and those personalities… spare me.
Won't pay to listen …. that's like paying to uh how did you put it?
BREATHE!< I read, I speak, I write. I live in the USA so I can't just go out and listen
to Korean. I wouldn't mind sitting at my computer for a while, but I'm
not going to put hours and hours into listening to things I don't understand.
I have Korean friends – Whatever you think I should be doing, I'm doing. I just can't
find a beginner intermediate listening program where normal Koreans (not cartoons or
fake personalities) speak regularly spoken Korean.
Youtube – right. Too fast. Dramas — too slow and boring / don't know what they are saying.
Songs = poetry type language – impossible.
Help.
Nancy Meyers
August 28, 2011 at 4:19 pm
Hi Nancy, first of all I’m sorry it took me so long to write you this response.
I understand your difficulty and there is a gap in the amount of learning content that helps one to break into real Korean content, that is, good intermediate-level learning resources.
My recommendations are the following:
Talk to me in Korean (.com) if you are not understanding 95% of everything in the 이야기 series on first listen then you have listening work to do here. I understand what you mean about the personalities and the repetitiveness of it. They have an interview series on here which is good also.
The book ‘Using Korean: a guide to contemporary usage’ is exactly what you need for the level you are at. It helps bridge the gap between learner and ‘real’ Korean content i.e the kind you get in dramas and movies.
Incidentally, I don’t like Korean dramas either. I do like their movies though. I recommend finding a movie you like, buying the DVD and watching it with the Korean subtitles on.
The videos and transcripts I posted for 남녀탐구생활 are good, they may still be a little advanced for you though.
Check out the gloss library of Korean resources and search for the lowest level on there. There are loads of excellent lessons and they have lesson notes explaining everything that isn’t obvious from a cultural standpoint.
Finally, spend time with Koreans and involve yourself in some meaningful way in their lives
Good luck!
James Devereux
December 4, 2011 at 5:03 am